How Gen X Navigates Career Change
Episode 466 | Host: Emilie Aries | Guest: Vince Chan
What risks and rewards does a Gen Xer have to weigh when they consider taking a career risk?
When it comes to exploring the generational differences in the career arena, Gen X is often overlooked. Instead, the media provides attention-grabbing headlines about Millennials (aka Gen Y), Baby Boomers, and Gen Z, and this applies to career advice as well. Even Bossed Up doesn’t have as much info for this generation as it could, and this is an oversight I’m determined to correct.
Vince Chan is a financial wizard and a human capitalist at heart. A Gen Xer herself, Vince has navigated significant flux in her adult life and counts her recent foray into podcasting as career change number eighteen! In both her podcast, Chief Change Officer, and her public speaking and publishing spheres, Vince is driven by a desire to support Gen X professionals as they traverse critical career crossroads.
Vince and I get deep into Gen X’s fears, values, and myriad strengths. Vince shares how these components combine to form a resilient generation with so much to offer—often more than even they realize.
Who exactly is Gen X?
If you’re between the ages of 44 and 59 in 2024, you belong to Gen X. They’re a smaller proportion of the population than either the preceding Baby Boomers or the Millennials who follow. And while every generation sits between two others, for Gen X, the phrase “Sandwich Generation” has a more specific meaning.
Many Gen Xers are currently sandwiched between caregiving expectations. They have kids still living at home and parents beginning to require extra assistance. Add to this the fact that they themselves aren’t as young as they used to be, and all the health issues that implies, and you have a generation facing significant pressure from all sides.
The career concerns of Gen X
People in their mid-40s and -50s were raised and educated by Baby Boomers and the earlier Silent Generation. Events like WWII, which these beleaguered generations grew up in the shadow of, inevitably shaped the beliefs and values passed along to their Gen X charges.
Layered onto this foundation are the current concerns about not just family care but also mounting layoffs, pending retirement, and the fear of obsolescence in the face of ever-expanding technology and the more tech-savvy Millennials and Gen Zers.
Gen X career fear: being judged
I shared with Vince a question put forward by a Gen X friend of mine. She is contemplating a career change but worries this pivot is disloyal to the company for whom she has worked for over a decade.
Vince notes that, in general, Gen X faces a variety of fears built upon their upbringing and present-day challenges. Among them looms a fear of judgment from their loved ones and colleagues should they choose to leave the supposed security of a long-held job to seek out something more fulfilling.
A unique versatility in a rapidly transforming world
This hesitation is a shame because most Gen Xers are fonts of versatility and perfectly poised to take on a changing world thanks to all the change they’ve weathered already.
Unlike other generations, whose formative years were spent quite firmly in the analog or the digital, Gen X saw it all. As Vince puts it, she worked out math calculations on paper in primary school, learned to use a calculator in secondary school, tackled the first digital spreadsheets in university, and then came into adulthood alongside the Internet.
Vince notes that a lot of Gen Xers worry they aren’t tech-savvy enough to compete with the born-and-bred digital age Y and Z, but the truth is, they have tackled shifting technology their entire lives!
Whereas Gen Z might assume digital natives can do everything, Gen X’s years of embracing a growth mindset give them a unique value-add: they have the resilience to navigate change.
Dear Gen X: love yourself more
Vince finds that Gen Xers who aren’t happy in their current positions tend to either remain in the roles out of loyalty (or, as she labels it, a fear of judgment) or immediately pursue the traditionally validating path toward a new career: more formal education (a fear of inadequacy), rather than recognizing the wealth of business experience and promise they already possess.
The first advice she would give any Gen Xer looking to change trajectories is to “love yourself more.” Be selfish when considering future career paths, she urges. Explore your personal interests and how you feel about the choices before you instead of bowing to traditional advice and pressure. Don’t ignore what your heart is telling you, and, most importantly, don’t undersell yourself. Gen X has so much to offer.
Solidifying these truths is the goal of Vince’s podcast, Chief Change Officer, which shares the stories of people who have challenged and changed their own career paths.
What do you make of all this? What internal and external constraints and belief systems affect your career and future? How does your generational identity impact your risk tolerance when it comes to your career? Share your thoughts on Vince’s advice and your own experiences in our Courage Community on Facebook, or join us in our group on LinkedIn.
Related links from today’s episode:
Connect with Vince on LinkedIn
Listen to the Chief Change Officer podcast
Episode 176, Changing Careers After 40
Episode 64, A Feminist Take on F.I.R.E.
Episode 456, How Connection Can Cure What Ails Us
Episode 434, The Economic Imperative of Affordable Childcare
HIRED: my Job Search Accelerator
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[INTRO MUSIC IN]
EMILIE: Hey, and welcome to the Bossed Up podcast, episode 466. I'm your host, Emilie Aries, the Founder and CEO of Bossed Up, and today I want to give some long overdue attention to my Gen X listeners.
[INTRO MUSIC ENDS]
As a Millennial, I feel like I've talked a lot about my generation. I mean, Millennials just in general have gotten a lot of press over the last decade. I feel like baby boomers get their due to they get a lot of ink spelled about them. So does Gen Z on their way into the workforce now. But for whatever reason, maybe due to the fact that they're a smaller generation overall, Gen Xers have been overlooked in a lot of career conversations and so that's not fair and we want to rectify that today.
So today I'm excited to be joined by Vince Chan, who calls herself a financial wizard by training and a human capitalist at heart. She's at 51, embarking on her 18th career change by diving into podcasting with the mission to achieve career equity for all. She's the executive producer and host of Chief Change Officer, a top ranked global podcast dedicated to the art and science of career change for progressive minds. Since its launch in 2024, the podcast has amassed over 400,000 downloads and achieved Top Career Podcast rankings in Strategic Markets, including number one in the US, Canada and Ireland.
And as a Gen Xer herself whose partner is also a Gen Xer, Vince speaks quite a lot about the research and relates her lived experience of being a Gen Xer career changer who's navigated a lot of transformation over the course of her career. From the very early age of 15, when she first outlined her career plan, Vince has navigated the high stakes world of billion dollar investment markets. Prior to focusing on human capital, she spent over 15 years at top tier global institutions including the Hong Kong Monetary Authority, Goldman Sachs, S and P Global Ratings, Deloitte, PWC and TCW Asset Management.
Her expertise spans finance strategy and entrepreneurship supported by the US CPA and CFA credentials, so she has a finance background. She also holds the unique distinction of earning MBAs from both the Yale School of Management and Chicago Booth, the only individual in the history of both schools to do so. So, Vince has her credentials lined up with a background in solid finance and business strategy, and she's a two time published author of career guides in China, and is a recognized speaker at major global conferences, like the Web Summit and South by Southwest, where she shared her extensive knowledge about the future of work, which we touch on in today's episode.
Now Vince is launching The C Room, a multi generational career enablement firm that focuses on assisting Gen X finance professionals at critical career crossroads. Overshadowed by Baby Boomers and Gen Y, Gen X faces challenges that traditional career coaching, mainly around interview skills and resume crafting, doesn't necessarily address. So The C Room, designed to free Gen X professionals from career stagnation, reignite their motivation, and maximize their strengths from Wall Street to Main Street. Vince, welcome to the Bossed Up podcast.
VINCE: Well, thank you for the invitation, Emilie. I'm really, really excited to be here today.
EMILIE: Today I want to talk about career transition for Gen X, because I think Gen X doesn't get a lot of press, right? Gen X doesn't always get a lot of attention compared to Boomers and Millennials and even Gen Z’ers entering the workplace now, who I feel like have a lot of representation in public media about their generation.
So, when we're thinking about Gen X in particular, and to be clear, your story transcends your generation, but also your global experience as a high achiever, as a, you know, child who's transitioned from China to the US and back, and you've done so much as a high achiever with that sort of immigrant child pressure feeling, right, that I think a lot of first generation college students can relate to. And so there's so much to your story beyond your Gen X status that informs how you've approached your career. But for my Gen Xers who are listening along here, what is the Gen X generation characterized by?
VINCE: Basically between age 44 to 59, then you're Gen X. I'm 51, so I'm in the middle of the Gen X generation. You're right. We are so much under the radar. I check the Internet. You know, if you look at Google, I think the result is, I don't know how many, but, like, you know, compared to Gen Y, which is Millennial or Gen Z, the number of results, like, much lower. Partly, some people argue that because the size of our population is small on a relative basis to Boomers, as well as Y. That's why, you know, all the marketing effort, all the, you know, when I talk about, like, retail, like, about, like, it's all about, oh, Baby Boomers, they spend Gen Y, they spend, which is Millennial or Gen X. They're just hard working people. They work.
I think Gen X, in today's job market in particular, they face certain constraints. And these constraints, some of those are externally imposed, some are internally imposed. And I would argue that any GenX who is now listening to this episode, if you really want to control your situation better, your career prospect, your career change or, you know, to fulfill your own potential more. I would argue that you deal with the internal impulse constraint more. I will explain what that means.
External constraint, we are called sandwich class, meaning that we got squeezed by Baby Boomers, we got squeezed by Millennials. When I say squeeze, I mean, in terms of, again, support, you know, products, any kind of products, not just coaching products when it comes to HR or anything. I mean, like all kinds of things, but we're squeezed also on another level. Think about it. 44-59, what does that mean? If you are married, you have kids, your kids are not, most likely, they're not coming of age yet. They're still maybe in, you know, still need to support them financially and take care of themselves, take care of those kids. And then your parents, most likely Baby Boomers or maybe so called silent generation, the generation before Baby Boomers may have health issues. They may be okay, or maybe they got other things. So you, and you may also get your own health issue. Think about it, 44-59.
So you’ve got the family factors. You got two generations on both ends to squeeze you. You got work issue, because now we got AI, we got a economy that is not very stable. We got laid off. You know, some of the Gen X may got laid off as well. So we got financial issue we're not sure about if we have enough money to retire. So retire in the formal sense. And I would argue that retirement would take many different forms going forward. So all in all, on work, on health, on financial and family fronts, we are squeezed. That's the external constraint that I argue that. Harder for us to change. We can kind of manage our health, but a lot of things we can change, right?
EMILIE: Yeah. And career change after 40 is hard in general, right? Like, you know, we're talking about people who have well established careers at this point. They're juggling that sandwich generation of caretaking from children and parents. And so those are very real constraints that keep people from transitioning. Right? What are some of the internal constraints?
VINCE: You see, I call them psychology and mindset, and that's related to how we were brought up. We were brought up by our parents, and peers, and teachers. And who are these parents and teachers that most likely Baby Boomers or even older than Baby Boomers. And those people, they've experienced the second world war. They've experienced, like, really, really bad situations when poor state. They have certain ethical standards. There are certain concepts in their mind. They are all about, you know, they could be a silent generation. There's a lot of those concepts that kind of pass along to us.
EMILIE: Is that related to the Gen X loyalty thing? Because I was just texting with a former client of mine and a friend of mine before this interview, knowing that she's a Gen Xer who's been thinking about or just playing around with the idea of making a career transition. But she feels so disloyal to her employer, who she's been with for 15 years. You know, like, is that related, do you think, to how they were brought up?
VINCE: I haven't thought of this word disloyal, but I have another word for it. I think Gen X face a lot of fears. Fear of judgment, fear of failure, fear of age, disclosure, fear of inadequacy, fear of falling behind, fear of background based identities, fear of appearance, fear of social comparison, and fear of loneliness. Now, you may argue that, well, Vince, some of those fears. I think we all have those fears. Sure, absolutely. We're humans. Of course we have fears. But I found that a lot of these fears in Gen X, they are more pronounced.
For example, fear of judgment. Your friend, of course, your client. I don't know all the things. So she used the word loyalty. I like to, if I know about her situation more, I think it could be related to fear of judgment. Is that because, again, the peer group we are more attached to peer group we are more attached to. Again, a standard playbook in my case. For example, I went to Yale for MBA. 20 years ago, I graduated in 2002. So today, 20 years later, all my friends, some, uh, of those. Seriously, they're famous people in their own space. They got really big title. And, I mean, me being, like, having my podcast, honestly, in their eyes, I'm not successful at all.
EMILIE: It's very Millennial of you.
VINCE: Yeah.
[LAUGHTER]
EMILIE: See, a Millennial like me, it's like, such a bragging point to have your own thing. Right? Because Millennials were taught that, like, your passion should be, your purpose should be what's yielding your paycheck and like to go pursue your dreams and hustle hard and start your own thing. That's very Millennial success factor, but not so much for Gen X. I think it's like, Gen X values institutions still, in a way that, that Millennials don't. Right?
VINCE: Well, relatively speaking, yes, you're right. Yes, we are taught to what is the perfect job for you? You join again, I can say not Google. I think when I was in Yale, I used Google. I mean, as a user, Google wasn't as big as now, so they did not recruit MBA’s. But in my days, the big institution, they're Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, McKinsey, BCG, they're all consulting firms, banks. They are still here, by the way, these are still big firms. Don't get me wrong, they're big firms.
A lot of people still like to work for them, but we are so attached to those brand names, to institution. Oh, you know, if one day I become the managing director of JP Morgan, that's the peak of my career. Yes, sure, absolutely. You got a seven-figure paycheck. That's, of course, everybody wants to get, want to get a seven-figure paycheck, but, yes, but because if you have a seven-figure paycheck and let's say you got laid off, right? And then you say, okay, I got some savings, I can take my time. Sure, take your time. Maybe you have a family, maybe you're not married, doesn't matter. And then you start thinking about what's my next career direction? Do I still stay in banking or do something else or maybe write a book? You have a lot of options.
And I bet for sure for myself, but also for a lot of my friends, they most likely would not be as bold as me to just try something different. Just like not getting a corporate job again and even invest my own money to create this and this, to write a book, to spend money, you know, getting things done without seeing, oh, are you going to earn 10x from this or 100x from this? Have you done the calculation, Vince? You know, and Gen X tend to have this fear of judgment. What if my friends think of me this way? What if people see you this way? And I found that in humans, in our lives, honestly, at the end of the day, if you care so much about how people see you, you don't love yourself enough. And I found Gen X, they don't realize that they don't love themselves enough. They just care so much about others in a good way and bad way, and that put a lot of stress on me.
EMILIE: Well, I wonder, like, how would you advise a Gen Xer to approach a career transition knowing that they are kind of conditioned to be caretakers for both if they have children, you know, children who are nearing empty nest status, right? They're getting pretty up there at this point in their forties, so hopefully their children are going to fly the coop eventually.
But caring for elders, right? Caring for family members is like a big part of their lives right now. And they're watching their retirement funds, they're looking at their pensions. If they're lucky enough to have one. They're looking at those numbers and saying, holy s***, if I don't put the pedal to the metal, I don't have that much time left in the workforce when it comes to peak earning years.
So if Gen Xers are feeling like, oh, my gosh, I have to get ready for retirement, do I have enough? And they're anxious about that. Why would anyone benefit from making a career transition at that stage? I think that's the opportunity costs that we fail to look at sometimes. And I'm wondering, you know, that my Gen X friend I was talking to said, I look at my Millennial counterparts who hop from job to job every two to five years, and they get big salary increases for doing so and I just wonder, am I missing out or am I being loyal by staying here? And what's the safer path, you know?
VINCE: Yeah. Interesting. When you mentioned two to five, that's actually like, more than ten years ago, I told my friends that don't stay in a firm longer than five, but I think in today's world, 2024, I would say you'll be lucky to stay in a firm more than, you know, for five years. I think today the number is getting smaller and smaller.
Back to your question. I think there are different things that Gen X can do. One thing is they come to talk to me, [LAUGHTER] then I can offer them a good rate, good consulting rate. This is a little crucial here. But, you know, joke aside, there are a couple of things. Some to do with their mindset, with the attitude, some to do with, of course, the action. Let me talk a bit about the attitude.
Now, retirement, I know all along, my generation, for sure, but all along, even nowadays, we always think of retirement is, we reach a certain age, maybe 60, 65, then we have savings to allow us to travel around the world, maybe on a cruise or something. You know, we always got those scenes in our mind about how retirement may work. You know, I guess for older generation, maybe they got grandkids and, you know, children, etcetera. But I think the retirement, this concept of retirement, I think retirement still would still be around this concept, but the form and shapes of retirement would change. Like everything else in our digital era, everything else got redefined.
So in the past, you got a Yale degree, and then because you go to the school, but now you can get some kind of Yale education through Coursera, for example. So there's a lot of things we need to redefine the retirement. When I think of the retirement, the concept is, don't be bound by the standard play, oh but we have to be able to have ABC in order to call it a happy retirement. Well, a happy retirement, it could be DEF, it could be XYZ. It doesn't have to be ABC. First of all, about the concept of retirement. Like, what constitutes a happy retirement for you?
EMILIE: Does that include work, you think, like income?
VINCE: Yes, I think work in the past is we work, we save enough and then we maybe invest, we have property, and then yes, we can retire. Yes, you're right. I will argue that and for sure myself, I don't see myself honestly, so to speak, not working after a certain age. As long as I'm healthy, you know, healthy, mental, physical. But you will see me keep working and working until the day I'm honest, if you will keep in touch. And then, you know, you see, oh, Vince, this new book coming out. I talked to her about ten years ago. Don't be surprised to see me like this.
EMILIE: I mean, I do think I have a purpose. And I was just talking with someone on the recent episode here about longevity and health and social prescriptions in the UK, and she was saying, like, giving people a purpose, a sense of purposefulness, if that's the word. To really continue working is a way to continue engaging in the world. And it's so Gen X of you as like incredibly hardworking people who still believe in our institutions and want to contribute, to be like, I'm going to work forever.
And in fact, we have another guest on the podcast from a few years ago now, Tanya Hester. She and I talked about fire movement, the financial independence, and retirement early. And her whole book is about work optional. Getting to this point where work is optional, but that doesn't mean you don't continue to work. Right? And so retirement, I think as a concept, you're right, is starting to really look differently.
VINCE: Yes. Now, retirement, that's the concept. And then, you know, figure out again your own definition of happy retirement. I think you define what happy retirement means for you, specific to a situation. You don't have to be on a cruise, although I see a lot of retired people, they travel on a cruise, they really enjoy their life, good for them. But again, you know, you don't have to be like that and second of all, I think Gen X, when it comes to career change or transitions, and now we're entering the AI era, and a lot of people, I'm sure it's not just Gen X, I'm sure even Gen Y or you, Millennials, or Gen Z, a lot of humans are concerned about what would happen with the job, what would happen with the world work.
I think Gen X, while I say they are hard worker, they attach the standard playbook. There's certain things, there are certain good things about Gen X. Think about it. Gen X I would say, is the most versatile generation that transforms, that transcends across, analog world and the digital world. When I was in my primary school, I used pencil and paper to do math. Then when I was in senior high, I was allowed to use calculator. That's eighties, that's when, you know, Lotus 123, which basically is the predecessor of Excel, came into this world and all that.
And then in my nineties, when I was in college, I used computer, I used PC, I used Microsoft Software to do my paper and all that. And then when I was in Yale, I used Google, I used emails, I used Internet, I used a lot of things. I didn't even have LinkedIn when I do networking. And now we have link in a lot of.
So what I'm saying is, I think Gen X is most versatile when it comes to navigating and adapting to different literation of digital era. So I think Gen X, they're hard worker, but I would say they undervalue themselves. They undersell themselves in terms of, oh, maybe I'm not tech savvy, I haven't grown up in a tech savvy, no, no, no. You actually know exactly how sort of math is being done. You know how to figure things out when like you don't, you did not have any, any help. And now we're in a world that we got this supercomputer, we don't even see the size of it, but it's the whole world that does all kind of computations so quickly in front of us, yet we adapt, we learn. So I would say for Gen X, one thing is don't understand yourself. You are really versatile. Think about your transformation from analog to digital and several literation of digital world.
So now we're entering AI. What does it mean? Well, of course you learn. You need to keep learning. Everyone has to keep learning about the latest technology. Use it, try it. You don't have to create it, but you need to understand how to use the tools. But at the same time, the human, the human qualities of use. Something that we all developed when the world was much less digital, the human connection, how to build relationship, human to human interaction, and a lot of honestly, business, what business is doing?
Business is about building relationship and whether we're in AI world, we're in whatever quantum computer. At some point, we have a new word for the latest technology. But when it comes to business, when it comes to building career, when it comes to adding value to your job, whatever job you're doing, it's all about human relationship. You need to negotiate a deal with your counterparts. You need to negotiate, deal with the lawyers. Even though the lawyer may have a lot of AI tools in the back end. You have a lot of human interaction, stakeholder management, a lot of those skills. I must say, Gen X are very, very skilled in that because we grew up in that kind of world. And then we transitioned in the digital world.
Millennial and Gen Z, because you guys are so, so exposed, exposed to a lot of things. Some of those skills, unfortunately, I would say, got lost or somewhat distorted. I think Gen X has a lot to offer when we're entering the AI world, how we can use AI and human as a partnership. Going forward, I read a lot of articles about the AI technology, the people. Right now, it's not just about the AI, the Chat GPT, it's about how to use AI to work better with humans. And a lot of business problems. A lot of situation in whatever firm you're in, whatever industry you're in, is about like, okay, what's the human problem? What's the human situation where we can apply AI, where we must still use some human?
I think Gen X, because they have a lot of experience with the real world situation, they have a lot of value to add in terms of, okay, I know where the problem is. I know exactly because I've tried myself. Now we got this technology how, you know, and then we got technology people, we can work with them to create a human AI solution.
EMILIE: I wonder what you think of self advocacy among Gen Xers, because I think both Gen X and Millennials like myself, have gone through a lot of transitions in terms of culture, culture, and work and the use of technology. So we're equipped to know that that's super valuable. But I think Millennials were taught, especially Millennial women were taught early on, that we have to negotiate more, we have to advocate for ourselves. We have to be flagrant in some people's opinions about how we ask for all that we're worth.
And I feel like there was a lot of, you know, people could call it hubris or say that we felt entitled, but also in defense of my generation, you know, we got saddled with record numbers of student loans, and, you know, have to advocate for ourselves in order to make what our parents made right? And we're still struggling to do that for the majority of my generation.
But Gen Xers feel really different when it comes to talking about pay and salary. And having the confidence in your value is one thing, but asking to be paid for it is another. Do you see Gen Xers withholding when it comes to negotiation and self advocacy in that way?
VINCE: I would say yes. I think Gen X, you ask a very good question, because again, the other day on social media, someone put out a survey about, oh, Gen X, should they be more outspoken, more vocal, or they prefer to be more silent? And, you know, it's not an official survey, so don't take it seriously. But in fact, I think over 70%, which is the longest wall, is like, remain silent because Gen X wants to remain silent. I'm not those Gen X. I'm the outliner. I'm always the outliner anyway, in my generation. [LAUGHTER] And I, even, like, I create my podcast. I say this podcast is for the progressive mind.
EMILIE: Well, you're coaching them. You know what I mean? You've got to bring them along, you know, for the ride. So it makes sense that you'd be challenging your fellow Gen Xers in that way.
VINCE: Yeah, yeah, I would say yes. I think Gen X, again, once again, they're so attached to the standard playbook. And one another thing, I think Millennials, when you guys are coming of age, first of all, you have the tools, you have the technology, you have the platform for you to express yourself. First of all, because in my generation, I told you, when I was in Yale MBA, I did not have LinkedIn. So I have email, we had email, we have Internet. But when we try to reach out to people, sending them a cold email, to introduce yourself, can we get an informational interview? In fact, I got my job by attending an industry conference. I talked to people face to face, like really thick skin.
EMILIE: Right. Meanwhile, Millennials and Gen Zers are afraid to pick up the phone and, like, use it to call somebody.
[LAUGHTER]
VINCE: Yeah, but you guys are more vocal in a sense, because you've got a platform. You can say whatever you want to say. Although we know that some people, they say things totally inappropriate with the ease of the technology. But anyway, so Gen X they attached a playbook [INAUDIBLE]. And also in our generation, at least I would say up to certain years, we are so called rewarded for being a good boy or good girl. It's like, today we talk about, like, oh, going to college is not good, you know, when it comes to, you know, looking for career. Because in the past, having a college degree, having a master's degree, you have access to certain type of job that pays you well, you got a return to your so called investment.
And then we come to this stage where, oh, degree. I wouldn't say degree in general. I think certain degrees have less value than others. I still think education is still important. I personally think still very important. We should educate, we should get education, proper education, we keep learning, etcetera. But in my generation, what Gen X is so attached to a standard playbook, why they still want to attach to certain institution? Because in their life experience, up to certain point, when they did certain things, they fulfill certain requirements, they finished the college, or maybe they got an MBA, they got certain education, and then they got a fairly good job. They stay in the job, they got paid really well. They see, oh, this is a comfort zone. It's so comfortable. Why am I leaving it and taking the risk?
Whereas I would argue for Millennials or even Gen Z, because the economy, the economic structure is so much different. You get a degree, you may not get a certain type of job that pays you well, and then you try different things. You're being creative, which is good, but at the same time, because you found that, oh, no, that's not my experience even. I got a degree. I got a Ivy League degree. Doesn't mean anything to me anymore when it comes to work and all that, why we need that and all. So that's why we see a lot of those conversations. And gradually, now we got AI. But anyway, I know we, we can save it for another episode.
EMILIE: We should. I mean, there's a lot to say about AI, but I feel like you've shared so much already. And, you know, as a Gen Y’er, a Millennial myself, I just wonder how much of our generational differences are due to the astronomical increase in cost around education, which I think is only comparable to the astronomical increase in costs around childcare, now that my generation is starting to experience firsthand as well.
So it's just the economics of it all. It's funny, given your background, but the economics really influence the generational characteristics and what's happening in terms of career choices as a result. So, I want to leave us with one sort of final question and then an opportunity for you to share more about your work and how folks can team up with you on this. But what's the first piece of advice you would give a Gen Xer, given everything you've already shared today, who's thinking about a career transition for the good of her family, for the good of herself, for the good of her earnings. What's one piece of advice you would want her to have?
VINCE: Love yourself more. Be selfish. We are taught not to be selfish. We're taught not to be self centered. We're taught not to be a narcissist. I'm not asking you to be just focused on yourself, ignoring everyone around you, ignore your family members. Just like today, I'm not happy. Tomorrow, I quit my job. Not that kind of selfish. When I say love yourself more, because, again, I found it a lot of times, and for sure, in my own personal experience, I guess when it comes to job, when it comes to work, when it comes to choices, making choices, when it comes to thinking of my future, when think about what I want to do now, do I go for an MBA? Or even, if you ask me, what would I study if I got a chance to change my career, I wouldn't go for an MBA. Not that. That wasn't a good experience. That was a very, very good experience.
But then I would have to explore more of my personal interests before I make that decision. Back then, a lot of people around you, you know, even in good faith, your friends or family. Oh, hey, Emilie, you shouldn't change your job. You know, this job is XYZ. Oh, you should. You should change this job. You know, look at this. This. At XYZ, they probably analyze a lot of things for you in good faith. I'm talking about, like, those people who are in good faith. And of course, there's some people who are just nosy. But even if you are surrounded by really supportive people and they all ask you to take that job, take a job. This is like, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
At the end of the day, ask yourself, okay, if you do this, how would you feel? What would you face? I'm having this podcast. It's about career change. It's Called Chief Change Officer. So anyone would like to check out another podcast, Apple and Spotify. You can find me at Chief Change Officer. The idea is we can all be a master. We can all be CEO of our life. That's why everybody can be chief change officer. It goes beyond your organizational title. It goes beyond your institutional label. And I interview a lot of my friends, and even friends from different culture and different age group to talk about the change they have gone through and how they view change at work in their life. I hope from those stories, people can find inspiration.
And also, you could follow me, of course, on LinkedIn my handle is @TheVinceChan, not any Vince Chan, it's The Vince Chan. Yeah. Podcaster is my 18th career change. Haven't done it before myself yet. I started three months ago, and so far it's been a good experience. I don't fear any judgment from anybody. Even people laugh or I don't care every single time. I just keep doing a good job and keep working hard. I think that's the working hard, working smart, and also, again, love myself.
Part of my logical decision. I think of all the business ideas, how I can make money out of all these ideas. That's logical, but at the same time, love, meaning the love for myself. That’s really something that can motivate me to get up every morning. I'll feel happy, I'll feel fulfilled, and then I can also help people and I can see their change, the positive change.
EMILIE: Well, Vince, I'm so impressed with everything that you're doing, and I so appreciate you taking the time to share so much of your wisdom and so many of your gifts with our listeners here today. I really have enjoyed this conversation.
For links to everything that Vince and I just discussed, head to bossedup.org/episode466. That's bossedup.org/episode466. There you'll find a fully written out blog post that's easy to share, as well as a corresponding transcript for the full conversation in writing.
I want to hear from you, Gen X. I want to hear from my Gen X listeners. I know you're out there. What did you make of today's interview? What else is there for us to unpack when it comes to the constraints, either real or imaginary, perceived constraints which we all have but that seem to affect Gen X in particular when it comes to navigating career change, especially after 44, right? That can be a hard thing to do in general.
So I definitely recommend checking out some of the related episodes I mentioned that are in today's show notes, including navigating a career change after 40 and some of the conversations that we've had on the podcast recently around the rising cost of care, childcare and elder care included.
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And let's keep the conversation going as always, in the Bossed Up Courage Community on Facebook and in the Bossed Up LinkedIn Group. Until next time, I can't wait to keep Bossin’ with you in pursuit of our purpose, and together, let's lift as we climb.
