How To Become More Resilient as an Underrepresented Leader
Episode 448 | Host: Emilie Aries | Guest: Jacqueline Twillie
Resilience gives underrepresented leaders the ability to thrive while they strive.
Resiliency is an important trait for any leader, but the systemic barriers erected around underrepresented professionals, on top of persisting gender and racial gaps in pay and leadership, make this skill even more vital. These are the voices we need to see in power if these disparities are going to improve.
Jacqueline Twillie quite literally wrote the book on resilience for leaders in these demographics. Dear Resilient Leader: A Guide for Underrepresented Leaders draws on her experience working to reduce workplace inequity. She focuses on how to equip women from underrepresented backgrounds with the tools and strategies to gain clarity and navigate potential pitfalls on their rise to leadership. In this episode, we discuss her book and approach to strategic sustainability for leaders facing these challenging dynamics.
Risk, Resilience, Rest, and Reward
In Dear Resilient Leader, Jacqueline presents what she calls the R4 Framework, which digs deep into how to use Risk, Resilience, Rest, and Reward to build a sustainable and strategic leadership trajectory.
Jacqueline explains that success isn’t linear; it’s a combination of so many factors working together cyclically to keep us rising to meet our goals. In her book and her Resilient Leaders Program, she walks you through the interplay of these four essential ingredients of success.
As leaders, we need to strategically consider and take the risks that will level up our careers. In order to take those risks and solve those problems, we must tap into our resilience. This well is not bottomless, though, so figuring out which situations are worthy of our resilience and which are not is part of the process. Rest is another non-negotiable—we need it to replenish our resilience so we can continue to take risks and experience the fourth R: the rewards we so deserve to celebrate.
Getting unstuck: a traffic metaphor for risk-taking
Taking career risks can be scary. It can feel overwhelming and hazardous to pursue risky endeavors on behalf of your company or career, especially for underrepresented leaders who are often left to feel as though they alone are responsible for amending the long-held stereotypes of their race or gender. Jacqueline knows that risk-taking requires a certain mindset, and she uses a savvy metaphor to describe it.
Imagine you’re stuck in traffic. When you become fed up with not moving for minutes on end, you start looking for alternative routes. You refer to your GPS and realize that to break out of this traffic rut, you need to think outside the box—you need to take a route you don’t often use or have never previously explored.
Once you’ve identified the off-ramp you need to reach, you start inching forward. You take slow, strategic steps to move toward this new goal, and as you do, you communicate your plan to those around you with your blinker.
Navigating this new route either brings you successfully to your destination or leaves you a bit lost. Either way, once that particular journey is done, you think back to what led you to achieve or fall short of your goal and how you might apply what you learned next time you’re stuck in traffic.
Jacqueline’s traffic example is an excellent metaphor for risk. Taking risks calls for a growth mindset (as opposed to a fixed mindset, as Carol Dweck explores in her book Mindset: The New Psychology of Success) that doesn’t give in to blaming yourself and giving up (ie: sitting in traffic) but instead recognizes the challenge that you haven’t solved yet and sets about figuring it out.
Redefining failure
Resilience isn’t about never making mistakes or never failing. It’s reviewing our successes and so-called failures as they happen and being open to learning what we can from those experiences. Armed with this ever-growing body of practical knowledge, we can achieve the unprecedented level of success that awaits us.
What resonated for you in my conversation with Jacqueline? Join our Courage Community on Facebook or our group on LinkedIn to share your own experience with resilience, failure, and that vital rest component.
Related Links from today’s episode:
Connect with Jacqueline on LinkedIn
Connect with Jacqueline on Instagram
Connect with Jacqueline on Facebook
Jacqueline’s book, Dear Resilient Leader: A Guide for Underrepresented Leaders
The Seven Spirtual Laws of Success by Deepak Chopra
Episode 386, How To Boost Your Energy With The Power Of Nutrition
Level Up: a Leadership Accelerator for Women on the Rise
ADD MORE STRATEGIES TO YOUR LEADERSHIP TOOLBOX:
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EMILIE: And welcome to the Bossed Up podcast, episode 448. I'm your host, Emilie Aries, the founder and CEO of Bossed Up, and today I am so excited to sit down with an old friend, Jacqueline Twillie,
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to talk all about resilliency in leadership or becoming a more resilient leader. This is particularly relevant for underrepresented leaders like Jacqueline, a woman of color who wrote a phenomenal new book that we are so excited to dive into called dear resilient leader. Now, a little background on Jacqueline. First, she's a visionary leader who's committed to reducing inequity in the world. She works towards achieving zero gaps in racial and gender wage gaps and promotes equality and leadership. Her passion lies in empowering women, especially those from underrepresented backgrounds. Jacqueline has helped thousands of individuals build their confidence and gain clarity in navigating the often taboo topic of wage gaps and leadership disparity. In 2020, Jacqueline founded the Resilient Leaders Program at Zerogap Co., A leadership intensive explicitly designed for women and underrepresented leaders in male dominated industries. That's the inspiration behind her new book and today's conversation. Jacqueline, welcome to the Bossed Up podcast.
JACQUELINE: Thank you so much, Emilie for having me. I'm delighted to be with your community.
EMILIE: So delighted. It feels like this is like a full circle moment because we were in each other's orbit back in the day when Bossed Up was really just beginning. And it's so wonderful to see how far you've taken your career and Zero Gap and everything that you've been doing and all these books you've been writing. Congratulations.
JACQUELINE: Thank you so much. It has been a journey. It never happens overnight. And that's also one of the reasons why I admire you, your consistency, to just keep adding value to those around you.
EMILIE: Thank you so much. That was such a very specific and kind thing to say. I love that. Thank you. That makes my little Virgo heart really sing. So, Jacqueline, you're here today because you wrote a new book, Dear Resilient Leader, which it feels like a really personal kind of letter, right? You open every chapter with a personal letter to the reader. Tell me first and foremost, what inspired this book.
JACQUELINE: So, this book was inspired by many things, but more specifically, you just referenced the letters that came out of witnessing what black professionals were going through starting summer of 2020 in the reckoning of George Floyd's murder and the black squares. Really, that was in big impetus. But this book origins go back ten years ago, so there's many layers until how this book came to be.
EMILIE: Yeah. Well, it's so interesting because you're writing directly to those underrepresented leaders, saying, look, injustice is everywhere. It's not like we can just snap our fingers. The solutions to injustice and social justice, that stuff doesn't happen quickly or simply. So what can individual underrepresented leaders. We're talking women, men of color, women of color. You know, what can they do to kind of keep themselves going? Is that sort of the underlying goal of the book?
JACQUELINE: That is the underlying goal. And I start by saying, listen, I understand systematic issues you didn't create. It's not your problem to solve. But what I would like for underrepresented leaders to gain from the book is that there are some things that you can do to protect your mental health. And I know most professionals are so passionate about their work, they want to add significant value. So here's how to do this despite those dynamics that are very challenging.
EMILIE: Right. I love that, especially speaking to black women professionals who are some of the most ambitious professionals in the whole workforce, saying to them, like, look, this isn't your fault. You didn't make any of this the norm. You shouldn't have to deal with any of this B.S. but, here's how to be strategic and sustain yourself, which I really love. So I want to dive into your framework. Why don't we start there? Because you introduced the R four framework right out the gate. What is the R4 framework that underpins this whole book?
JACQUELINE: So, the R4 framework is a framework we use at zero gap, where we explore risk, resilience, rest, and rewards. So, success is never linear, and it's not a really simple equation of one plus one equals two. It's a combination of so many factors. So, when the team and I were working on workshops a few years ago, we would do this workshop called risk resilience reward. The missing element to that was rest. So, going through a lot of the work that Zero Gap had been doing, I identified that rest was an important ingredient to success. And so that's what underpins this book, where we walk you through, how do you strategically take risk in your career? When do you need to expend your energy to tap into resilience? Because not every situation is worthy of your resilience. And then where do you celebrate your success? That's the reward aspect. And rest, like I said, it's so critical that you have that rest so that you can tap into resilience. So it's more of a cycle.
EMILIE: It does feel like a cycle, yeah, it's sort of like a birth and rebirth. Like there's a, there’s sort of like a fluctuation to that process because you can't be resilient in an unending way.
JACQUELINE: Right. That's burnout.
EMILIE: Yeah, exactly. So it's like, at some point, if we're just constantly having to be resilient, a little bit of rest ain't going to help. We need more than a weekend. We need more than a vacation. It's like figuring out how to take those strategic risks that will propel your career forward requires, like, a reservoir of courage. And that reservoir can be tapped very easily, right?
JACQUELINE: You are preaching to the choir. Absolutely. You've got to tap into that reservoir often and very early on in different stages of, um, taking a risk with your career.
EMILIE: Awesome. I want to talk more about those four stages in that R4 framework in a moment. But at the start of your book, there was a section that really struck me when you were talking about the role of underrepresented leaders in being resilient versus the role of corporate leadership, which is mostly male and pale these days. Right,
JACQUELINE: Right.
EMILIE: In terms of setting up those underrepresented leaders for success, what do you see as the role of the organizations these days? And are you concerned in the sort of divestment we've been seeing in recent years around DEIB initiatives?
JACQUELINE: So much to unpack there, and a really interesting question. It's complex, and I love the complexity of that. So, one of the things that really inspires me about all leaders is their ability to problem solve. Most of the leaders I know, regardless of gender, regardless of race, they identify as problem solvers. So what I see, the challenges that underrepresented leaders face, I see this as something that we can all imagine a way to solve. So that's the first thing. The other part, you know, there's no shortage of headlines that talk about the divestment in DEIB. And it is very startling to see that politically, there are policies being enacted that companies have to follow. So a lot of this is coming out of leaders hands because of policies that are around them in the environment that they're in. So, what I love to see, I just spoke to someone last week who said she had sponsors all throughout her career, and they've been phenomenal and they've all been white men. And that really inspired me because that allyship in action, there are many stories of that. What I hope is that those men who are sponsoring black women, specifically those white men, for them to speak up and say, hey, I sponsored this woman, this is how I supported her and elevated her. I think it'll take a lot of the mystery away of how do we support black women specifically and then underrepresented leaders in general, and that will create a pathway for organizations to have more diversity and inclusion from the top.
EMILIE: So you're saying, and I've seen this myself, like, that individual allyship doesn't require policy, you know, doesn't require an environment that makes that okay. Officially.
JACQUELINE: Absolutely. There are so many great examples of that. We need to hear more of it, because it will inspire others to take that individual action.
EMILIE: Right. I love that. And you write in your book, fund your DEI initiatives, too. It's like, we could use both, right? We could use that individual action and corporate commitment in the form of dollars and time and paying your folks who are running those employee resource groups and giving them a proper budget so they can actually do the analysis work and the actual problem solving work that takes money to solve for. So I like how you kind of frame that up front in your book.
JACQUELINE: Thank you so much. I was so intentional about that because I didn't want it to come across as a book that's bashing. But I also wanted to address the fact that historically, this has happened, these barriers have been presented for underrepresented leaders, and we can't move forward if we don't address the root of the problem, and we have to address those facts. So thanks, that's why I started with that. And then I try to move forward, uh, with even more actionable tips for those leaders.
EMILIE: Yeah, super actionable, which I love. So I want to dive into risk taking. Risk taking can feel so scary, especially when you're up against stereotype threat, right? This idea that, oh, my gosh, I represent my entire gender or my entire race, and if I mess up, I'm going to perpetuate these negative stereotypes about my gender or race. It's so much pressure. And so you kind of talk about what kind of mindset you need to help you take those calculated risks. Can you tell me more about how mindset informs risk taking?
JACQUELINE: They go hand in hand. I call them cousins, the risk taking and the mindset. And I want to just be super clear that the risk that is associated with being one or the only of your identifying group, they carry real stigmas, and also the pressure and burden to be perfect is based on fact that someone failed in the past, and therefore, it limited opportunities for other people in those underrepresented identifying groups. So, with that being said, one of the things that we work through in the Resilient Leaders Program is that we tell leaders to think about when they're stuck in traffic. So here's a really short story. Go with me, folks. So when you're in your car and you're stuck in traffic, you start looking for an alternative route.
The first thing that you do is you turn up the GPS and you try to figure out how long is it going to take me? You assess that situation, you look at an alternative route, and then you begin to start to think outside of the box. This is my favorite way to work. This is the route I know. However, if I'm going to get to my destination today, I'm going to deviate. So in terms of that risk, you're willing to go somewhere you haven't gone before or, uh, you don't go often. Then you typically, in a traffic situation, inch forward. It will be slow most of the time. You can see your exit ramp, but you can't get there quickly. So you just take the smallest steps possible to get there. Also, at the same time, while you're inching forward, you're communicating. If you're going to work and you're communicating to a team member or for a client, you're going to send someone a message and say, this is what's going on, and I'll get there as soon as possible.
So these are the assessment, the navigation, the communication, inching forward. And the last thing that we encourage leaders to do when they're taking a risk is once they reach their destination to reflect, how did I move through this situation really quickly, find those lessons and notes and apply it to a future situation. So when you're thinking about risk, think about being stuck in traffic. It's not ideal. It's very inconvenient. But you problem solve really quickly and take a risk to go a different direction.
EMILIE: Right. And it can be really uncomfortable and annoying and stressful. Right. Like all of those emotions. That's such a great metaphor because you might be cussing your way through traffic and you're like, I don't want to be here. And that can often feel like that's how you know you're taking real risk, is that level of pressure and intensity can be very emotional.
JACQUELINE: Right. So emotional. And I love what you said. Sometimes you're cussing your way through it, but the key word is you're going through. You're not stuck.
EMILIE: Right. So I love that you reference Carol Dweck and her original research on Mindset that's in her book from, like, I think it's like the 1960s or 70s called Mindset. And in it, she talks about a growth mindset versus a fixed trait mindset. And to carry the metaphor forward, I feel like that fixed mindset leader who is afraid to deviate, frankly, and is really fixed on this is the way we do things. This is the only way I know how. I'm not going to take risks because that feels really dangerous, and I'm not capable of going that way. I know I'm capable of going this way. She's going to stay in traffic. She's going to just stay going in the direction that she knows, whether or not it's the best direction right now.
Whereas a growth mindset says, look, I haven't done this before, but I'm going to try something new, and it might go well, it might go spectacularly wrong. Right. That's the tricky thing about taking career risks, is that sometimes the risk doesn't pan out and it fails spectacularly. But if you have the right mindset, that reflection at the end is not why am I a screw up and why am I incapable of driving? But rather, it's what went wrong in that direction that I took. And how can I learn from that so I don't make the same mistake?
JACQUELINE: That is so true. I love Carol Dweck. I read her book, minimum, once a year. It's one of those fixtures where the more experience I have in my life, I see that book through a different lens and the bridge from a fixed mindset of blaming yourself and thinking something is wrong internally. Over to the growth mindset, where you recognize the challenge in front of you and say, I can figure this out, or, I haven't solved this yet. Carol loves the word yet. That bridge is often a tiny tweak. So if we go back to the analogy of being in traffic, it's that inching. It's most of the time for leaders. It's recognizing where you have a negative thought and where you're blaming yourself. That recognition is a shift. It is so powerful because that is the catalyst to them being able to say, all right, I don't want to speak negatively on myself. I have enough negativity to deal with in the world. Let me be my best advocate and figure out a way forward. So I love that growth mindset, and that's why I reference it in the book, because it's such a key pillar to resilience, navigating challenges is to be able to say, I can figure it out.
EMILIE: Right? Totally. So let's bring it home, then on resilience. How do you conceptualize resilience? Because I feel like it's become a bit of a buzzword. How do I know that I'm being resilient? How do I know that I'm a resilient leader?
JACQUELINE: So there's a funny story that we talk about when it comes to resilience, and you're trying to figure out if you're resilient or not. We often reference this case of being in traffic in the Resilient Leaders program, where we say most people when they're in traffic, they don't call work and say, hey, I'm quitting my job today because I'm stuck in traffic. That is a sign of no resilience. You cannot overcome a challenge. You have a scenario, and you say, there's no way out. I've given up. I'm quitting. Throw the keys away into a big body of water. That's a lack of resilience. You know you have resilience if you continue to try to figure out a solution to whatever challenge you have now, this can be exhausting, and it will take a lot of energy to push through to continue to find a way forward. That's where rest comes into play in the resilience strategy. So most people, although it's cliche, they don't realize every time you solve a problem, you're tapping into your resilience.
EMILIE: Yeah, that's such a great point. I think you referenced the woman who, um, gives that great TED talk on grit.
JACQUELINE: Angela Duckworth.
EMILIE: Yes.
JACQUELINE: Yes.
EMILIE: When I think of how you just described resilience, I think of grit. It's like that feeling that I can figure this out, but also, I'm going to need a nap. You know, like, this takes energy.
JACQUELINE: Yeah. And Angela Duckworth's entire body of work is so important, oftentimes we use grit and resilience interchangeably, and on surface level, they're very much the same thing. The difference is the ability to just only push through is grit and bear it. And your resilience is your ability to bounce back. So you may get knocked down and you recognize that you've been knocked down, but you get back up and you continue to move forward.
EMILIE: I love that. I think that makes a lot of sense. I had a question about what you wrote about sort of the neuroscience behind all of this. When you were writing about neurotransmitters and their relationship to resilience. You got a little geeky here, which I love. But help me understand sort of the role that neurotransmitters play when it comes to resilience in our brains and in our bodies.
JACQUELINE: So this is one of my favorite parts. And oftentimes when I'm in person with a group, I spend at least 45 minutes unpacking that. And without getting too geeky on here, on a base level, the different chemicals in our brain, they change when we experience stress and how we're interacting with different, um, elements in our life. So, for example, we know that we get a dopamine hit when something goes well. And the more that we're aware of when we're getting a dopamine hit, we're then able to say, oh, I know what this is, and I know how to use it to my advantage. But when we get stressed out, when we're frazzled, when we're navigating a change that we did not anticipate, that we don't necessarily like on the surface, we are not always aware of what's happening in the brain and those neurotransmitters. So that section of the book says, hey, do some research. Do further research. Understand the chemicals in the brain. But not only that, understand the impact of drinking water. When you're faced with unsettling news, what does the benefit of taking a break and going for a walk? What does that do to your brain in terms of helping you to tap into resilience? So that section is meaty. It's a little geeky, but it's also one of those really practical things. When you understand the chemicals in your brain, you can use it to your advantage.
EMILIE: I mean, it's so foundational, isn't it, to, like, we can talk a big game about resilience, but at the end of the day, it's like, I might have the resilience to deal with this problem after I take a walk and have a glass of water. It seems almost so simple that you don't want to give that advice. But I guarantee you at least 50% of our colleagues and folks tuning in are probably being reminded right now, like, oh, wow, I really could probably use a glass of water right now, or I probably could use a walk before I deal with whatever catastrophe awaits me in my inbox next. It's like some of those basic needs we take for granted and we put on the back burner.
JACQUELINE: That is so true. And also, I mentioned drinking water a lot because we're not performing at our optimal levels when we're dehydrated. So if you're dealing with a stressful situation and you're trying to push through and just get a project done. And you're heavy on the caffeine. Now, I love my coffee. Start my day every day with a late with oat milk. Listen, that gets me going. But if I'm just refilling my body with caffeine only, I'm going to lead my body into a state of dehydration. I'm not going to think clearly when I'm dehydrated. So the same thing happens when we're dealing with challenges. If our bodies don't have the right nutrition, then we're not performing at optimal levels.
EMILIE: Totally. I'm such a huge fan of nutrition, ever since I started working with a nutritionist, Patricia, who I had on this very podcast. I'll link to her episode, but I never in a million years, Jacqueline thought I would be able to say this, because at one point, I was drinking, like, six cups of coffee a day. I have recently given up coffee, and I'm a tea girly. And I was just reflecting on this how, like, I don't even know how I'm functioning lately, but it's been weeks, like, over a month of not having a cup of coffee. And I'll have the occasional chai tea latte, which is, like, my big caffeine hit for the week or what have you. But I'm, like, a tea girly now. I'm, like, a green tea fanatic. And I was just thinking the other day, this is the first time I've gone without coffee for more than a day since high school.
JACQUELINE: Whoa.
EMILIE: So, like, half my life. And it has really changed things in profound ways for me. So, Patricia if you're listening, even she won't believe me when I tell her, like, because she helped me get down to one cup a day about a year ago, and it's, like, absolutely life changing because hydration. I'm on hydration nation over here, and so I totally pick up what you're putting down.
JACQUELINE: Love that. I'm big on, um, the wellness piece too. So I've been getting IV drips, especially because I fly so much. People have been asking me, like, how do you stay productive? And you're flying multiple times a week? It's really difficult to stay hydrated when your body's going up in the air. But if I'm in a city where it's readily available for me to get an IV drip and push all of those nutrients back in my body and get hydrated,
EMILIE: Yeah,
JACQUELINE: I am all about it. That's one of my resilient secrets.
EMILIE: I love it. What a next level biohack, Jacquline. That's so cool. And what's got you traveling so much? Are you just doing a lot of speaking?
JACQUELINE: Yeah, so many things. The book came out, obviously, so I'm promoting the book and sharing that, um, the resilient leaders program that Zero Gap has, we deliver that live for clients at times. And last year, I was really blessed to be able to, uh, host 20 dinners in 20 cities around the world.
EMILIE: Amazing.
JACQUELINE: For an amazing organization called AIME.
EMILIE: That's phenomenal. We'll definitely need links to those things to drop in the show notes so we can keep up with you. And drop me a line next time you're in Denver. I'd love to meet back up. Before I let you go, I've got two final questions that feel very related.
JACQUELINE: Okay.
EMILIE: They're tricky ones. One is harder, and then the second one's a lot easier. So feel free to sort of take these in any direction. But, I wanted to talk about and kind of come back to risk taking and rewards. So my first question is, what has embracing risk and even maybe failing on some of those risks looked like for you? And then as a secondary question, what does it look like to prioritize joy and reward yourself for your successes, for your progress, for your resilience? What do rewards look like for you?
JACQUELINE: So, to answer your first question, there's a book that I love by Deepak Chopra, The Seven Laws of Success. One of those laws is the law of detachment. So when it comes to taking a risk in my life, I let go of, uh, the path to get there. My intention is really, uh, specific. I intend to do XYZ, but the path that I take in terms of getting there, I detach from, it has to be XYZ. So that leads to the reward part. Things pan out for me much better than what I could have imagined as a result of the joy and wonder of going down a new path. One of my favorite quotes is by Walt Disney, and I'm going to paraphrase it, but he says, curiosity keeps leading us down new paths. And so when I detach from a specific route, this does not mean I'm not setting an intention. I'm super clear on that. But when I detach from, it has to be a specific way. I allow myself to take those detours in traffic, take those detours in life, and experience the magic of being, and the joy is in the journey. That's probably the first time it clicked to me.
When people are like, it's not the destination, it's the journey. I used to be like, girl bye. That makes no sense to me. But now that I'm starting to embrace a little bit of wander, I now have joy in the process. So in terms of the reward, achieving a goal is rewarding. But what's more important is, I met this amazing person on a plane. Or something happened. My flight got rerouted. I ended up at a hotel eating dinner by myself. And I met this amazing person who turned to a client. So then I start to be like, I couldn't even plan this stuff. This is the magic of life.
EMILIE: I love that. So you're really not seeing any failures. You're seeing it as a reroute and you're seeing it as a new path.
JACQUELINE: Yes. But let me also address the failures because there are plenty of failures along the way. Um, and I just want to be realistic because it's not all like sunshine and roses. Sometimes those failures hit hard. Sometimes they cost money. What I've learned to do is to look for the lesson in those failures, to give myself an opportunity to process the feelings that I have. Anger, frustration, sadness, disappointment, to process those. And once I have a chance to process those, then to look back and say, all right, what's the lesson here? And also for something that I'm dealing with now, that's really challenging the question that I'm asking myself, and I got this from my mentor, Susie Batiste, is what is this here to teach me? So I really go into, instead of saying, why is this happening to me, I tap into, okay, this happened at this chapter of my life for XYZ reason. What can I learn from it? And the sooner I learn this lesson, I can then experience a different level of success.
EMILIE: Yeah. You are the most Zen entrepreneur that I've talked to in a really long time. [LAUGHTER] That's really powerful stuff. I could use that in my life. So I'm going to take all that with me as I move forward. Because you're right. I mean, everything in your book that you're talking about isn't about being perfect. It's about the ability to bounce back and the ability to weather the inevitable storms that come our way.
JACQUELINE: Absolutely. And the sooner we realize that perfectionism is a trap, then we can use resilience, like my nieces and nephews have a new trampoline. They bounce up and down. They fall and they're like, oh, but this time I'm going to bounce with even more zest. And that's really something really special that thinking of picturing those kids in my head bouncing up and down on the trampoline is like, okay, this is what resilience is.
EMILIE: Yes. I love that. Jacqueline, where can my listeners learn more about you and all the great work you're up to?
JACQUELINE: My favorite place to hang out online is LinkedIn, Jacqueline Twillie. But I'm also on Spill. I'm on Threads. I'm on Instagram and Facebook.
EMILIE: Amazing. We'll drop links to all those great resources and your website and the Resilient Leaders Program in today's show notes. Thank you so much for joining me. This conversation has been such a joy.
JACQUELINE: Thank you so much for having me.
EMILIE: And now I want to hear from you. What did you make of my conversation with Jacqueline today? Let's keep the conversation going, as always, in the Bossed Up Courage Community on Facebook or in our Bossed Up LinkedIn group. And as always, you can get the show notes, links, and full transcript,
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as well as more details of everything that Jacqueline and I discussed on today's episode at bossedup.org/episode448. That's bossedup.org/episode448. And until next time, let's keep bossin’ in pursuit of our purpose. And together, let's lift as we climb.
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